Shultice Financial

A CEO Role Model?

When you think of a typical Fortune 500 CEO, what characteristics come to mind? Personally, I see a standard corporate big-wig as…

-a male in late 50s, early 60s
-power-hungry
-in suboptimal health due to lifestyle
-sacrificing personal relationships for his career
-pocketing huge bonuses despite taxpayer-funded bailouts
-a fat-cat capitalist, through and through

And so on. I was generalizing greatly of course, but that’s the impression we most often get. It’s no wonder that these people are some of the wealthiest and most powerful in the world, yet we don’t often look up to them with envy. There isn’t much desirable about the traits I listed above, no matter how big the salary.

There are exceptions of course. Everybody loves Buffett. A lot of people love Jobs. And you have to applaud what Gates is doing. But those that we can look up to and truly admire seem pretty few and far between.

I recently found another one. He is most definitely not cut from the same mold as most others, which is precisely why I think he is such an awesome dude. I’m referring to John Mackey, the founder and CEO of Whole Foods Market. I only know a little bit about him, what I have learned has altered my view of the business world and given me a lot of inspiration.

What’s different about Mackey you might ask? Ha! Where do I even start?

1.) He cares about much more than his company’s bottom line:

As a publicly-traded company, Whole Foods must concern itself with turning a profit. But as part of Mackey’s business philosophy described as conscious capitalism, it’s far from their sole objective.

Mackey requires that his business have a noble purpose, and Whole Foods definitely does. Long before it was all the rage, they were a pioneer in selling only natural, sustainably-grown foods. The products on the shelves at Whole Foods are better for both consumers and for the earth than the typical American diet that originates from industrialized agriculture.

I think Mackey is living proof that the business world, despite what we often hear, can be an avenue in itself to do what you love and make a positive difference in the world.

2.) He’s innovative:

Take healthcare: he’s received a lot of criticism for his outspoken opinions of healthcare reform, but his system at WF (high yearly deductibles, health savings accounts for each worker) has proven successful. Mackey estimates that his company spends probably about half of what others do to cover their employees. Other corporations would probably do well to take note.

3.) He’s grounded:

No private jet for this guy- if you fly Southwest, there’s a chance he’ll be sitting in the next seat. And when other executives are bleeding their companies with the massive bonuses, Mackey continues to rake in his yearly salary of exactly $1.

Partially because he doesn’t allow himself to be treated like royalty, Mackey’s company is able to donate 5% of their profits to charity.

4.) He walks the walk:

Mackey backs up his talk of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle. He’s probably in better shape than 99% of us who aren’t currently running a Fortune 500 company. If he can find the time to stay healthy, most of us have absolutely no excuse not too.

~

I feel like I’ve just given a 4th-grade report on a role-model of mine, but that’s OK. As someone who spends a lot of time wondering what I can possibly do to make the most of my life, learning about the likes of John Mackey is a huge inspiration.

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Bertrand Russell Financial Advice

Well, I don’t know of any specific financial advice he might have given, but I think we can derive some from one of his more-famous quotes.

Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

I agree 100%. Even the busiest among us sometimes need to completely ignore the to-do list and cut loose on some genuine fun. A laundry-list of productive accomplishments isn’t very appealing if it leaves little or no time to simply enjoy ourselves.

Money is the same way in my mind. When it’s all said and done, what will matter more- a fatter bank account, or a life of memories that occasionally required some more liberal spending?

As someone who is really passionate about personal finance, I have to be careful here. It’s possible to crash and burn (think big spending spree) after too much incessant coupon clipping and general self-deprivation. On the other hand, we could fall into the abyss of frugality, developing an OCD-like addiction to spending as little as possible. If you find yourself eating brown rice seven times a week and never going out on weekends, this could be you.

Save for legitimate times of hardship, we need to loosen the reins once in a while. Whether it’s an $8 jumbo funnel cake, a 10-gallon hat reminiscent of Jim Carey’s, or a Halloween costume for your dog, don’t neglect to invest in some carefree enjoyment from time to time (in moderation of course).

Money you enjoy wasting is not wasted money.

I’m sure Bertrand Russell would agree.

Emergency Fund Goal: Almost There…

Early this year, I recorded a simple financial goal: by December 31st, I wanted to have $1,000 in my ING emergency fund. At the time, I had about $500 and change in the account. Now, with a little over two months left in the year (and, if you can believe it, the decade), I’m less than $75 away from my goal.

Some things I’ve learned along the way:

1.) Having an emergency fund (even a small one), really does give you some peace of mind. We all worry about our transmission conking out, a huge medical bill, or losing our income,  but we need not worry as much if we have money set aside specifically for these possibilities. Unless you are an exceptionally lucky person, these sorts of things will happen at some point in your life. We won’t know when, but we can be ready.

Many people have enough assets to cover a minor crisis or two, but for many this entails raiding a retirement account. Since this is essentially stealing from your future, and you get slammed with taxes and penalties to boot, this only adds insult to injury in an emergency-type situation.

2.) It’s also a good idea to have a miscellaneous savings account for unexpected expenses. This account can cover untimely cash outflows that aren’t exactly a full-blown disaster; speeding tickets, broken windows, or a towing bill after leaving your car in the street during a snow ordinance (guilty here). These things all suck, but they aren’t emergencies in the way that being laid off is. If a legitimate crisis is present, you will know it. Otherwise, don’t even think about touching that emergency fund.

3.) A 1.3% interest rate blows. It’s disheartening. It makes me disgusted with our drunken-sailor monetary and fiscal policies that are killing the dollar. Not too much we can do about this though; an EF needs to be extremely low-risk and liquid.

After I reach my goal, I’ll likely cut back on EF contributions, maybe putting in 1-3% of my income (vs. 5%+ now). This will allow me to focus a bit more on scaling the mountain of student-loan debt that looms before me.

Leno Exposes Our Financial Stupidity

How much is flat-out ignorance to blame for our financial woes? Jay Leno’s popular “Jaywalking” segment usually provides some good laughs, but also shows us how clueless some of our fellow citizens are. In one such taping, Leno discovered a serious lack of financial common sense:

Of course, they don’t show the many people who answered the questions perfectly, and some of these respondents probably just froze up with the cameras rolling, but it’s still kind of scary.

I think Leno summed it up well at the beginning- “this is why we get in trouble, because we don’t know what we’re doing.” It’s probably safe to assume that a person who doesn’t even know what a CD is hasn’t spent a lot of time mapping out financial goals and a money management plan.

When the financial crisis began unfolding, I always wondered how people could be so foolish- racking up credit card debt, saving absolutely nothing, and getting suckered into mortgages that were almost certain to overwhelm them. Now it doesn’t baffle me as much.

In a bit of good news though, how bout this hare market recently?  :D

Why Defined Savings?

Saving for retirement is pretty straightforward. We try to max out 401k’s and IRA’s, hope the markets do their thing over the long haul, and then retire a millionaire. Simple enough.

Hopefully that’s not the full extent of ours savings though. We also need to consider things like…

-Vehicles
-A house down-payment
-Education (self or child)
-Wedding (again, self or child)
-Vacations
-Emergency expenses

I can think of three ways to pay for such big-ticket expenses:
1.) Rake in a monstrous income and pay for them as they come.
2.) Charge them to a credit card or dash to the bank for a loan.
3.) Steal from your future by raiding your retirement funds (and paying enormous amounts in taxes and fees to boot).
4.) Plan well in advance and save.

Unfortunately, option 1 isn’t realistic for most of us, and numbers 2 and 3 are definitely undesirable. It’s clear that we need to become proactive with our savings.

Now the issue at hand is how to save. For the most part, there is no right or wrong way to save. The only blatantly wrong decision is simply not saving at all. However, I’d like to make a case for having multiple savings accounts, each with a specifically designed purpose.

Even though you may not know exactly how much you’ll need (or when), there are still advantages to saving this way. I’ll use an example:

Let’s say that, outside of retirement savings, you have $17,000 in a single money market account. In addition, your old rust-bucket of a vehicle is on its last legs and will need replaced soon. How much of the $17k should you spend on a new ride? How much (if any) should you finance? It’s a tough call when your other big objectives of your savings are considered- a proposed trip to New Zealand, a MacBook, and a healthy cushion for emergencies.

Now with the same $17,000 split up among different accounts- one each for a car, a MacBook, New Zealand, and an emergency fund, the decision is easier. If the vehicle account balance is $9,267.45, you know exactly what you have to work with.

Even though the total sum of your savings is the same, it’s easier to prioritize as you go when you save this way. You can contribute more to accounts of higher importance while depositing smaller amounts to other goals.

A criticism I’ve heard of this method is that, if unavoidable expenses are bigger than the amount you’ve allocated to it, you’re going to have to pull money out of other areas anyway, so why bother to keep funds separate? This is true, but this system ensures that only on genuine emergencies would this be the case. In instances such as the car example, you can raid other accounts only by clearly acknowledging that you’re stealing from one of your other goals. As a result you’ll be much less likely to do so. Besides, by being more proactive, you reduce the likelihood that these situations will create such a dilemma.

To account for some of the uncertainties of life, I’ve opened a miscellaneous savings account in addition my defined ones. It will take some discipline not to tap into it for certain whims, but I think the added flexibility will be beneficial.

With their great subaccount feature, ING* is the perfect banking institution for this setup. I don’t know of any other bank that allows depositors to open and maintain multiple accounts so easily. It literally takes less than 30 seconds to open a new account when you’re an Orange Saver, and the ability to name them is beyond awesome.

Once again, there is no necessarily right or wrong way to save. I just wanted to share this method because it seems to work fairly well. As always, I’d love to hear your opinion on this.

*Note: If you’re interested in ING and decide to open an account(s) with them, let me know. New customers that deposit at least $250 and use a referral code get a free $25 and I get $10, so it’s a win-win for all.

If You Could Go Back…

What advice would give your younger self? What do you know now that you wish you knew much earlier? A little while back, J.D. over at Get Rich Slowly wrote what I found to be a really thought-provoking post, by asking his readers to recount their younger and less financially-wise selves. He then did the same thing himself.

He was likely referring to the late teens/early 20s time period, which means I’m not looking back at the time in my life- I’m still in it. J.D. is an extremely smart and successful guy, and when someone like that talks about what they wish they knew at an earlier age, I’d be a moron not to soak it up. For the same reason, I felt I should pass it on.

So without any further ado, here are the 5 financial truths that JD wishes he knew at an earlier age…

1.) Why it’s important to pay yourself first:

The government certainly does this; by the time you get your paycheck, Uncle Sam has already taken his share. It’s foolish for us not to do the same (especially with the respective tax advantages of 401k’s and Roth IRAs).

It’s almost a given that if you wait until the end of the month to save what’s left over, there isn’t going to be much there. By paying yourself first, you make it top priority to invest in your future and consistently inch closer to financial freedom.

2.) How to harness the power of compounding:

Compound interest has often been called the 8th wonder of the world. It’s a double-edged sword though. Depending on which side of the equation you are on (saver or debtor), compound interest can create wealth or destroy you financially.

It’s extremely simple, but once you truly realize this concept, you never look at financial decisions the same way again.

3.) How to avoid the seductive trap of lifestyle inflation:

I haven’t mentioned it on this site, but the “lifestyle inflation” term has become fairly popular in the PF blogosphere. I first learned the concept under another name- “Parkinson’s Law of Finance”, which states that expenses generally expand to fill the available budget. In other words, as you make more money, you tend to spend more money in proportion, and you still don’t get ahead.

This is precisely why people claim that things would be better if only they made more money, even after numerous promotions and raises.

We could go into a lengthy discussion about anti-consumerism and learning to be happy with less, but not today. This problem has a simple, practical solution- always, always save a percentage of what you earn, not a specific dollar figure.

This way you get the best of both worlds. As our income increases, our savings rise as well, but we also get the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of our labor and spend more liberally if we please.

4.) How to avoid the chains of debt:

It seems incredibly obvious, yet many people (and governments) seem to completely ignore the implications of recklessly living on borrowed money.

Clearly, not all debt is equally bad. A low, fixed-rate mortgage with an easy manageable monthly payment is a good example of a more “healthy” debt. But if you’re like the many who use plastic to spend like a drunken sailor, know that you’re borrowing against your future well-being, and it will come back to haunt you.

We in the United States already stand to sacrifice much because of the financial recklessness of our elected leaders. Don’t make it even harder by abusing debt yourself.

5.) How to save on things both big and small:

And then of course actually doing it… Most people probably know how to save on the things we buy, but actually doing it is another matter (just as almost everyone knows that we should eat healthier and exercise).

But there is some technique involved in getting the best value for our money.  Just as we should be aware of small, consistent money drains (the Latte Effect), we also want to avoid making a big blunder on a big-ticket item. A car salesman feasting on an uninformed buyer can effectively erase many small gains made by conscious spending.

~

I’m glad I came across this post of JD’s. It’s solid advice that is all-but guaranteed to help anyone get rich slowly if they apply it faithfully.

Any other pieces of financial advice you wish you knew at an earlier age? Feel free to share them below.

Prioritization

The fastest way to ensure that your budget fails is by attempting to apply frugality equally across all aspects of your life. An effective and sustainable personal finance plan doesn’t include deprivation. It instead allows us to spend more liberally on things we really care about, and cut back on things we don’t.

It’s an objective fact that resources are limited (just don’t tell this to law-of-attraction crazies), so it only makes sense that we should employ said resources in the most efficient way possible. Heck that’s essentially basis behind the field of economics. But do we actually do this?

Humans are semi-rational beings, so we should tend to prioritize even when we don’t consciously think about doing so. Unfortunately, “should” is probably the key word in that last sentence.

To successfully set our priorities straight, we must honestly answer the following question; what is it that we really care about?  Identify the areas where the prospect of being thrifty makes you nauseous.

-Say you’re an avid mountain biker- what would your reaction be if I suggested you buy your next ride at Wally World?
-Or maybe you’re a classic car buff- are you planning to trade in your ‘67 Charger project car for a late-model Toyota anytime soon? I didn’t think so.

For me, a good example is basketball shoes:

Sure I could go to Payless and get a pair for $19.99, but the chances of that happening are about as good as me sporting John Stockton-style short-shorts while playing.

I’m prepared to spend anywhere from 3-5x that much on a pair that are durable, offer plenty of ankle support, and are still comfortable even after 2+ hours of running up and down the court.  And of course, they have to look pretty sweet, because maybe more so than any other athletes, basketball players are obsessed with how their footwear looks. I’m no exception. 

It’s easy to identify things that we value, but that’s only half the equation. We must also identify what we don’t care about. This can be tougher, because it involves conceding that we must cut back in some ways in order to invest more resources elsewhere. However, if we want to maximize our total satisfaction (or utility, for any fellow econ nerds), we must ruthlessly cut back on the things that mean little to us.

Personally, I don’t care about having a fancy ride. My plain-jane Civic is fine with me, even though it’s lacking in all the creature comforts that have been standard on most vehicles for some time now (no power windows or locks even). I don’t mind driving a Spartan car as long as it’s efficient, reliable, and safe.

It hasn’t always been like this though; not all that long ago my nose was constantly buried in Sport Compact Car magazine, brainstorming how I was going to trick out my future Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

Somewhere along the way though, I realized that spending an enormous amount of money on a car wouldn’t really add much value to my life, and that I could think of a ton of better ways to invest the money. While I won’t deny that I would enjoy having one, the benefits of buying a kickin’ ride (more egotistical than anything) wouldn’t come remotely close to overcoming these realizations.

Where do you spend your money more liberally, and conversely, in what areas do you not care to spend much at all?

Why Efficiency Rocks

Back in July, two fellow members of my Toastmasters club gave speeches outlining their views on global warming. The first explained why he believed the science was shaky and that the issue was being used mostly as a political power-grab. The next week another offered a rebuttal, arguing that global warming is a genuine, imminent danger.

Naturally I decided that I’d like to speak on the topic as well. It seemed as if our members were fairly polarized on the issue though, so I decided to take a little different route.

It’s rehashed a bit from the outline, but the speech I gave on 9/14 was similar to this:

While the science behind the global warming debate is certainly important, I don’t believe the uncertainty should affect our actions much.

Imagine that we conclude that global warming is not a threat, and realize in 20 years or so that we were wrong. At that point we’d probably be up a creek.  But what about the opposite error? If we agree that global warming is a serious threat, and happen to be wrong, it might just be the most beneficial mistake in history.

The reason is because many of the solutions that fight global warming will benefit the entire planet, regardless of whether global warming exists at all. One such solution is the cheapest, cleanest, and most readily abundant source of energy that we have today- efficiency.

By focusing on the demand side, efficiency means that we don’t have to create as much energy in the first place, and this directly benefits us in several ways.

1.)  The first benefit should be obvious- efficiency saves money.

We simultaneously have a *likely* climate crisis, and we’re in a long-term financial mess, so why not attack both problems at once? No matter what your stance on global warming is though, it’s hard to argue against a fatter wallet.

Some changes, such as driving more sensibly, can literally save money in an instant. Others, like installing a programmable thermostat, require an upfront investment but will easily pay for themselves in time.

2.) In addition to saving money, efficiency would help us become more energy secure.

The energy crises of the 70s proved how overly dependent we were on foreign energy. In response, tax credits were rolled out to promote clean energy, speed limits on highways were lowered, and President Carter even had solar panels installed on the roof of the White House.

But in time the crisis passed, cheap oil returned, and President Reagan tore down the solar panels. Now here we are, over three decades later, and energy imports are still our lifeline. Somewhere along the way we must have missed the memo that said- “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Then there’s the even bigger issue of how much oil is left. Less than a century ago Texas and Oklahoma were practically drowning in the stuff. Now the world uses over 80 million barrels every single day, and we have to go to the ends of the earth to find it.

Some scientists think we’re near the point of peak oil, which is where global oil production tops off and then gradually falls thereafter.  If we weren’t ready for it, which at this point we are not, peak oil could be extremely painful and destructive. Prices would skyrocket as we’ve never seen before ($150 oil might seem cheap before long) as a falling supply fails to meet demand.

To correct these mammoth problems, we need to things; clean, domestic energy and more efficient lifestyles. Moving towards renewable energy sources takes a great deal of time and money, but many efficiency practices can be implemented today.

3.) The third reason to embrace efficiency is for the sake of the earth.

Humanity has wreaked an enormous amount of damage upon the earth, a good portion of which can be attributed to our voracious energy appetites.

In the March 2009 issue of National Geographic, there’s a lengthy article discussing the oil sands projects in Alberta, Canada. Since traditional oil fields are becoming more and more difficult to find and drill from, our friendly neighbors to the north are tapping into less conventional sources of black gold. The oil flows at a tremendous cost to the environment though.

At this point in my speech I had the magazine passed around after pointing out two pictures- one showing the pristine landscape before the oil companies move in, and the second showing the barren world after operations began. You can see these same pictures here.

The irony is, that drilling is considered economic progress. The oil company will probably see its profits increase, shareholders will be happy, and the GDP will increase as well. Econ 101 would consider that to be a success, but it’s hard for me to see how anyone actually wins when we treat our planet like that.

We don’t all have to become full-fledged tree-huggers, but we do need to work to lower our personal impact on the environment. Living more efficiently happens to be one of the simplest ways to do just that.

~

The U.S. is numero uno in many different ways, many of which aren’t worth bragging about. Here is one such statistic- with about 5% of the world’s total population, we use about 25% of the world’s energy. Global warming or no, we would reap many benefits by working to reduce this imbalance. It should be a no-brainer.

Cocktail Party Index Investing

So let’s say you’re a humble index investor. You dollar-cost average into your funds, then spend your afternoon shooting a 97 on the links while questioning why you ever took up the stupid sport in the first place. You don’t think about your portfolio all that much, because heck, barring a complete economic meltdown, your wealth will grow steadily over time. For the most part, life is good.

But then there’s that one jerk. Maybe it’s your coworker, neighbor, or brother-in-law. Whoever he is, listening to him is downright unbearable.  Watching Jim Cramer for 6 hours straight would be a relief after hearing his nonstop commentary on the markets and updates on his high-flying holdings.

You know that, in all likelihood, this blowhard isn’t half as successful as he claims, and your portfolio will easily achieve higher returns over time, but it still drives you nuts. But since Lloyd Christmas is competent enough to follow your investment strategy, you can’t exactly offer up much of a rebuttal.  Or can you?

Introducing-  The Cocktail Party Guide to Index Investing:

No more modest passive investing…

Here’s what you do:

1.)  If you haven’t already, invest in the Vanguard Total U.S. Stock Market Index Fund (VTSMX), or the ETF (VTI). You now own almost every publicly traded company in the US, but keep this fact on the down-low.

To seem more legitimate, make sure it looks like you are spending quality time online researching your next killer investment.

2.) When you’re “researching potential investments”, find the hottest performing U.S. stocks over the past few months or so.  A quick Google search for ‘hottest’ or ‘best-performing stocks’ should do the trick.

3.) Brag about the performance of these high-performing stocks.  It’s technically not lying- you did make 165% over the last month on your internet small-cap!  Never mind the fact that you own it indirectly, and in a miniscule amount; your 1/37th of one share accounts for something like .00013% of your entire portfolio.

4.) Dodge the tough questions.  Inevitably, your “success” will draw plenty of attention, so you need to be prepared to deflect any and all questions that threaten to expose you for the poser you are.

Since you only mention your best-performing investments, people will ask about any bad calls you’ve made.  Do anything possible to interrupt the conversation at this point.  Only you need to know that your shares of Lehman Brothers, GM, and Fannie Mae went up in smoke!

~

And that’s pretty much it.  Your index investing strategy, as bulletproof as it is, is only slightly less boring than driving a minivan.  But now at least you can talk a good game!  :)

The Problem With Index Funds: The Lloyd Christmas Effect

I could sing the praises of index funds and ETFs (especially Vanguard’s) all day long.  It’s hard to beat instant diversification and the dirt-cheap fees that characterize passive management.

But the incredibly simple nature of index investing also happens to be its greatest weakness.

There’s no challenge in searching through potential stocks, trying to pick a winner. The adrenaline rush that you get when you plop down your hard-earned cash on shares of XYZ Widget Company is missing.  The riskier route that is individual stock-picking appeases our ego a lot more than owning a tiny fraction of thousands of different companies.

We can all imagine the guys who stand around at a cocktail party or at the water cooler bragging about their supposedly highflying investments, exaggeration all but guaranteed. Then there others who may not discuss their financial activities much, but sit around at night playing with the technical indicators in their new E-Trade account, wondering what the day-trading baby’s secrets are.

Index investors, on the other hand, could care less about flaunting or attempting to demonstrate financial prowess. Heck, it takes up so little time that they can largely forget about it. While others are talking about making riches in the stock market (I doubt many actually are), or plotting their fail-proof route to investing success, index investors are actually doing it- slowly but surely, without even giving it nearly as much thought.

Over the long haul, index investors are many times more likely to have succeeded in creating wealth than their active-trading buddies, but it’s hard to impress others (or yourself) with a K.I.S.S strategy.  When’s the last time you heard somebody bragging about matching the market?  Probably never.  You might as well brag about being able to read this page.

And this is a problem.

When matching the market is easy as pie, many people will conclude that such a strategy is below them.  I’m guessing this mindset is much more prevalent among people who are well-educated and intelligent, and it gets many of them in trouble.

You surely remember Lloyd Christmas (Jim Carey), the insanely awesome but extremely dim-witted protagonist in Dumb and Dumber. The fact is, Lloyd could probably invest for success if he acknowledged his blatant lack of mental capacity and invested in an index fund or two.  Yes, I’m confident that a man who fell of a jet-way could save up some money, contact a fund company, and become an index investor.

The Lloyd Christmas Effect, as I’ll call it, is the challenge to our ego upon realizing that someone with a ridiculously low IQ could succeed as an index investor. Of course, I’m guessing few people actually make a connection between Dumb and Dumber and investing, but I’m probably far from being the only person to realize how incredibly simple and even thoughtless passive investing can be.

Given that we laugh at the stupidity of Lloyd Christmas, while generally thinking of ourselves as smart individuals, it can be difficult to accept such a simple method as a weapon of choice. Our intelligence is hardly tested, so it seems reasonable to believe that we could do better. And we probably could; I’m not trying to discredit active investing, but instead point out one of the biggest and most common flaws of those who partake in it- overconfidence. It’s not that we aren’t capable of beating the market- it’s that we tremendously underestimate how much consistent effort is required to do so.

If we can accept two facts….

1.) That passive investing is the clear choice for most people.
2.) That even Lloyd Christmas, or the Cavemen from the Geicko commercials, could do it.

…then we’re set.  Humility would do many an investor a lot of good.

There is one thing all index investors can brag about though: beating nearly every mutual fund over time.

Note: Despite the name of this post, this issue isn’t the only problem of index investing. A little while back, I wrote about basically the exact opposite issue.